Tiny and lighter weapons are affected more by recoil than larger and heavier ones. That's simple physics. When a tiny gun is fired, it jumps around much more than a larger gun would firing the same bullet. It takes more external force (strength) to lower the gun's tendency to jump around while firing to acceptable levels.
That being said, exceeding the strength requirement of a weapon is more of an issue for subsequent actions you take during the turn (like dodging or firing again), so for an assassin firing a single shot holdout, that could be totally acceptable.
Thinking about strength minimums, I think that putting strength minimums on armors is the way to go. The kinds of weird rubrics required to get Power Armor to be wearable by non-trolls is simply too fussy otherwise.
-Username17
alt.War: Turning Anger into productiveness
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RiotGearEpsilon
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CatharzGodfoot
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Fallout has strength requirements on firearms and armors.RiotGearEpsilon wrote:This is going to sound ridiculous, but bear with me. What sort of video games, if any, model the sorts of firefights you want to support with this combat ruleset?
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
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RiotGearEpsilon
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Hey, one thing I've thought about. A common trope in video games these days is shooting from behind cover. A lot of guns in Shadowrun have smartlinked scopes that let you see a 'scopes-eye view', allowing you to fire accurately from behind cover. Emphasizing the utility of this would resonate, I think, with the modern audience. I'd certainly be gleeful about it.
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CatharzGodfoot
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I know that I personally at least will probably be combining this as well as Ends and the houserules into a single alt.Shadowrun PDF at some point. I'm not sure if anyone else would be interested in such a thing, but I assume that they would be.
Perhaps we can end up with a suped up Shadowrun similar to how we've turned the Tomes into a suped up DnD.
Perhaps we can end up with a suped up Shadowrun similar to how we've turned the Tomes into a suped up DnD.
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Username17
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That's actually a very reasonable question. Shadowrun traditionally creates scenarios reminiscent of Fallout or X-COM. And it would I think fairly mandatory to cover those sorts of play experiences.RiotGearEpsilon wrote:This is going to sound ridiculous, but bear with me. What sort of video games, if any, model the sorts of firefights you want to support with this combat ruleset?
The hope ultimately is to get things over into the Fallout Tactics or HALO side as well, so that players can interact in scenarios that have heavy weapons and vehicles in addition to running around abandoned barns or decayed city scapes shooting aliens.
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RiotGearEpsilon
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A listing of example militaries in the Shadowrun setting from A-Grade to F-Grade, with associated equipment and logistical support descriptions, would be pretty fab.FrankTrollman wrote:Look, sometimes a country, corporation, religious affiliation, political movement, or other group of people that decides to come and take your stuff is a bullshit F-Grade force like a Somalian Pirate Family or a Columbian Criminal Group. Sometimes it's a D-Grade force like the Nation of Zimbabwe or The Army of God. But you know what? Sometimes it's a B-Ranked force like the Nation of Ukraine. Seriously, that's the 36th largest military on Earth. And sometimes they just decide to go bandit. That's a thing that happens. That's a thing that happens even though the two biggest militaries on Earth (the US and Russia) are pledged to shoot pirates right in the face.
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Username17
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You are totally right. I've started working on that. Filling in the table will take a while. The outline looks something like this:RGE wrote:A listing of example militaries in the Shadowrun setting from A-Grade to F-Grade, with associated equipment and logistical support descriptions, would be pretty fab.
| Organization | Personnel | Mechanization | Magic | Air | Naval | Space | Matrix | Modernization | Overall |
| Africa | |||||||||
| Addal | |||||||||
| Angola | |||||||||
| Anyi | |||||||||
| Asamando | |||||||||
| Asante | |||||||||
| Azanian Federation | |||||||||
| Benin | |||||||||
| Central African Empire | |||||||||
| Congo | |||||||||
| East African Protectorate | |||||||||
| Ethiopia | |||||||||
| Ifni | |||||||||
| Ivory Coast | |||||||||
| Kamen Bomu | |||||||||
| Luanda | |||||||||
| Madagascar | |||||||||
| Mali | |||||||||
| Mutapa | |||||||||
| Nigeria | |||||||||
| Oyo | |||||||||
| Presteria | |||||||||
| Sheba | |||||||||
| Somaliland | |||||||||
| Songhai | |||||||||
| Tuareg | |||||||||
| Tutsitia | |||||||||
| North America | |||||||||
| Algonquian-Manitou Council | E | ||||||||
| Athabaskan Council | D | ||||||||
| Aztlan | A | ||||||||
| California Free State | D | ||||||||
| Caribbean League | T | ||||||||
| CAS | B | ||||||||
| Denver | F | ||||||||
| PCC | C | ||||||||
| Quebec | |||||||||
| Salish-Sidhe Council | E | ||||||||
| Sioux | C | ||||||||
| Tir Tairngire | D | ||||||||
| Trans-Polar Aleut | C | ||||||||
| UCAS | A | ||||||||
| South America | |||||||||
| Amazonia | |||||||||
| Argentina | |||||||||
| Bolivia | |||||||||
| Chile | |||||||||
| Ecuador | |||||||||
| Paraguay | |||||||||
| Peru | |||||||||
| Uruguay | |||||||||
| East Asia | |||||||||
| Canton Confederation | |||||||||
| Formosa | |||||||||
| Gansu | |||||||||
| Guangxi | |||||||||
| Henan | |||||||||
| Imperial Japan | A | ||||||||
| Imperial China | D | ||||||||
| Korea | A | ||||||||
| Manchuria | |||||||||
| Ninxia | |||||||||
| Shaanxi | |||||||||
| Sichuan | |||||||||
| Zhejiang | |||||||||
| South Asia | |||||||||
| Assam | D | ||||||||
| Bahmani | D | ||||||||
| Bihar | E | ||||||||
| Goa | F | ||||||||
| Gujarat | C | ||||||||
| Khalistan | F | ||||||||
| Mysore | D | ||||||||
| Nagaland | E | ||||||||
| Nepal | E | ||||||||
| Orissa | E | ||||||||
| Pakistan | B | ||||||||
| Sri Lanka | F | ||||||||
| United Bengal | C | ||||||||
| Vijayanagar | A | ||||||||
| Southeast Asia | |||||||||
| Cambodia | D | ||||||||
| Chin | E | ||||||||
| Hainan | E | ||||||||
| Karen | F | ||||||||
| Laos | E | ||||||||
| Malaysia | D | ||||||||
| Montagnard Confederation | T | ||||||||
| Myanmar | T | ||||||||
| Nag Kampuchea | T | ||||||||
| Pattani | T | ||||||||
| Shan | T | ||||||||
| Siam | C | ||||||||
| Vietnam | B | ||||||||
| Yunnan | T | ||||||||
| Central Asia | |||||||||
| Abkhaz | |||||||||
| Afghanistan | |||||||||
| Georgia | |||||||||
| Mongolia | |||||||||
| Russia | |||||||||
| Tibet | |||||||||
| Tuva | |||||||||
| Turkestan | |||||||||
| Europe | |||||||||
| AGS | C | ||||||||
| Albania | E | ||||||||
| Austria | D | ||||||||
| Bosnia | F | ||||||||
| Croatia | F | ||||||||
| Czchoslovakia | E | ||||||||
| Dalmatia | F | ||||||||
| France | B | ||||||||
| Greece | D | ||||||||
| Hungary | C | ||||||||
| Italy | C | ||||||||
| Lithuania | C | ||||||||
| Macedonian Republic | F | ||||||||
| Macedonian Federation | F | ||||||||
| Malta | F | ||||||||
| Moldavia | E | ||||||||
| Monaco | F | ||||||||
| Navarra | F | ||||||||
| Ottoman Empire | B | ||||||||
| Poland | C | ||||||||
| Portugal | E | ||||||||
| Ragusa | E | ||||||||
| Romania | C | ||||||||
| Ruthenia | C | ||||||||
| Scandinavian Union | E | ||||||||
| Serbia | D | ||||||||
| Slovenia | F | ||||||||
| SOX | E | ||||||||
| Spain | D | ||||||||
| Switzerland | C | ||||||||
| Tir na nOg | F | ||||||||
| United Kingdom | B | ||||||||
| United Netherlands | D | ||||||||
| Middle East | |||||||||
| Algeria | E | ||||||||
| Arabian Caliphate | A | ||||||||
| Egypt | C | ||||||||
| Israel | B | ||||||||
| Kurdistan | T | ||||||||
| Morocco | F | ||||||||
| Palestine | F | ||||||||
| Persia | B | ||||||||
| Tunis | E | ||||||||
| Oceania | |||||||||
| Australia | C | ||||||||
| Bali | F | ||||||||
| Dayak Council | T | ||||||||
| Javan Republic | |||||||||
| Kingdom of Hawaii | E | ||||||||
| Lemuria | D | ||||||||
| Micronesian Federation | F | ||||||||
| New Zealand | |||||||||
| Papua | |||||||||
| Sumatran Alliance | |||||||||
| Tasmania | |||||||||
| Timor | |||||||||
| NGO: Corporate Entities | |||||||||
| Ares | A | ||||||||
| Aztechnology | A | ||||||||
| Eastern Tiger | D | ||||||||
| EVO | B | ||||||||
| ESPRIT | B | ||||||||
| Horizon | E | ||||||||
| Ifrit Services | C | ||||||||
| Khouang Combine | C | ||||||||
| KITT | D | ||||||||
| MCT | B | ||||||||
| Monobe | C | ||||||||
| NeoNET | D | ||||||||
| Novatech | D | ||||||||
| Proteus | C | ||||||||
| Renraku | C | ||||||||
| Saeder-Krupp | A | ||||||||
| Sandstorm EC | B | ||||||||
| Shiawase | A | ||||||||
| Shibata | A | C | |||||||
| ShinSiam | E | ||||||||
| Universal Omnitech | B | ||||||||
| Vedacorp | C | ||||||||
| Wuxing | C | ||||||||
| Yakashima | D | ||||||||
| Zeta Imp-Chem | E | ||||||||
| NGO: Policlubs | |||||||||
| Alamos 20000 | T | ||||||||
| Antifa | T | ||||||||
| Aristocrat League | T | ||||||||
| Atlantean Foundation | E | ||||||||
| Children of the Dragon | T | ||||||||
| Fourth Reich | D | ||||||||
| Green War | T | ||||||||
| Human Nation | T | ||||||||
| Knights Templar | E | ||||||||
| Lincoln Brigade | F | ||||||||
| Middle Kingdom | D | ||||||||
| New Islamic Jihad | T | ||||||||
| New Revolution | D | ||||||||
| Red Star Faction | T | ||||||||
| Terra First | T | ||||||||
| Universal Brotherhood | T | ||||||||
| NGO: Organized Crime | |||||||||
| Gingerbread | E | ||||||||
| Jo-Pok | T | ||||||||
| Mafia | T | ||||||||
| Năm Cam | F | ||||||||
| Triad | T | ||||||||
| Vory | T | ||||||||
| Yakuza | D | ||||||||
| NGO: Mercenary Armed Forces | |||||||||
| 10,000 Daggers | |||||||||
| Black Flag Operations | |||||||||
| Black Star | |||||||||
| Combat Inc. | |||||||||
| Extreme Measures | |||||||||
| False Flag Holdings | |||||||||
| Last Resort Corporation | |||||||||
| MET2000 | |||||||||
| Military Intervention Systems | |||||||||
| Optimal Solutions Services | |||||||||
| Tsunami | |||||||||
| Yǎnjìngshé |
Obviously, if you notice that I missed something or want to suggest various rankings for some country somewhere, I'm all ears.
-Username17
An explaination of the ranking scheme would help, I think.
FrankTrollman wrote:I think Grek already won the thread and we should pack it in.
Chamomile wrote:Grek is a national treasure.
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Username17
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Here's the table I'm using to define the table:Grek wrote:An explaination of the ranking scheme would help, I think.
| Rating | Means... |
| Personnel | |
| A | More than a million soldiers |
| B | More than 500,000 soldiers |
| C | More than 250,000 soldiers |
| D | More than 100,000 soldiers |
| E | More than 25,000 soldiers |
| F | Less than 25,000 soldiers |
| Mechanization | |
| A | Uses mobile field bases |
| B | Uses rapid deployment nested transports |
| C | |
| D | Has armored transports |
| E | Uses trucks and other civilian accessible transports |
| F | No mechanization |
| Magic | |
| A | Can use magic to alter the landscape |
| B | Can use exceedingly powerful magical effects |
| C | Has access to unique magical effects that force tactical changes |
| D | Has access to demographically appropriate amounts of magic |
| E | Is under equipped with magical ability |
| F | Has essentially no magic |
| Air Power | |
| A | Second Generation Stealth Technology |
| B | Access to Stealth, VHA, or T-Birds that require specialized AA to counter |
| C | Can air transport troops and/or ground vehicles in sizable numbers |
| D | Has bombing and air superiority functions |
| E | Has air defenses |
| F | No air force |
| Naval Power | |
| A | Can perform shore bombardment and project air power over the sea |
| B | Has stealth submarines or other naval power that can bypass orbital observation |
| C | Can project force across deep water |
| D | Brown water navy or outdated equipment |
| E | Merchant marine exclusively |
| F | No naval presence. |
| Space | |
| A | Has orbital bombardment capability |
| B | Has water penetrating spy satellites |
| C | Has own observation satellites |
| D | Has own communication satellites |
| E | Communication satellite use is contracted through a third party |
| F | No space presence |
| Matrix | |
| A | Has core access to network backbones, can deny access to whole regions |
| B | Has contingency operations for Matrix jamming and backbone damage |
| C | Can use Matrix assets to accomplish tactical goals |
| D | Has dedicated Matrix specialists to defend their information space |
| E | Can manage supply chains and such remotely |
| F | No Matrix presence |
| Modernization | |
| A | Has a futuristic combined arms system that will force others to adapt |
| B | Has adapted to the 2070s |
| C | Has not adapted to warfare in the Crash 2.0 era. |
| D | Has not adapted to the changes brought by the Comet |
| E | Pre-2030s doctrines and equipment |
| F | Is capable of fighting wars from the 20th century (or before) |
By the way: the original alt.war thing on dumpshock seems to be a dead link now, so I guess that's the end of me working with them at all.
-Username17
Switzerland, extrapolating from the 1990s, since they'd likely remilitarize back to Cold War-level given SR's history:
Personell: C (majority of the male citizens would be reservists with their weapons at home)
Mechanization: C (lots of APCs, some transport helicopters, no need for field bases since the army is defense only)
Magic: C (Good educational system, enough money to get magic troops)
Air Power: C (Not much air-lifting capability, but expensive modern planes, but in low numbers)
Naval Power: F (landlocked. A few patrol boats with HMGs on the Bodensee and lake of Geneva do not count as a navy)
Space: E or D
Matrix: B (high-tech infrastructure)
Modernization: B (Some branches may have "upgraded" older gear.)
Personell: C (majority of the male citizens would be reservists with their weapons at home)
Mechanization: C (lots of APCs, some transport helicopters, no need for field bases since the army is defense only)
Magic: C (Good educational system, enough money to get magic troops)
Air Power: C (Not much air-lifting capability, but expensive modern planes, but in low numbers)
Naval Power: F (landlocked. A few patrol boats with HMGs on the Bodensee and lake of Geneva do not count as a navy)
Space: E or D
Matrix: B (high-tech infrastructure)
Modernization: B (Some branches may have "upgraded" older gear.)
that description would actually fall under D, a brown water navy.Fuchs wrote:Naval Power: F (landlocked. A few patrol boats with HMGs on the Bodensee and lake of Geneva do not count as a navy)
After all, when you climb Mt. Kon Foo Sing to fight Grand Master Hung Lo and prove that your "Squirrel Chases the Jam-Coated Tiger" style is better than his "Dead Cockroach Flails Legs" style, you unleash a bunch of your SCtJCT moves, not wait for him to launch DCFL attacks and then just sit there and parry all day. And you certainly don't, having been kicked about, then say "Well you served me shitty tea before our battle" and go home.
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Username17
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Actually, I was using archaic terminology without thinking about it. I should have said "Green Water Navy". Used to be those terms meant the same thing, but of course by the 2070s no one will remember that. Switzerland could be written up with an "F" for Navy. What I don't see is why they have a "C" in Magic. Having a C in Magic doesn't just happen, you need to have crazy tactics pushing magical effects. Merely having magicians in some sort of demographically standard proportion to the overall size of your military force gives you a D. Falling below the D threshold requires magicians to actively avoid employment within your ranks for whatever reason (that reason often being "because they can get better pay working in private industry and don't have to put up with your shit).norms29 wrote:that description would actually fall under D, a brown water navy.Fuchs wrote:Naval Power: F (landlocked. A few patrol boats with HMGs on the Bodensee and lake of Geneva do not count as a navy)
Anyway, here's the part I actually need for the project:
| Organization | Personnel | Mechanization | Magic | Air | Naval | Space | Matrix | Modernization | Overall |
| Cambodia | D | C | E | C | C | C | B | B | D |
| Chin | F | E | D | E | F | F | D | D | E |
| Hainan | F | B | E | A | B | A | B | A | D |
| Karen | F | E | C | F | F | E | E | E | F |
| Laos | E | D | D | E | F | E | E | F | E |
| Malaysia | D | B | D | D | D | B | A | C | D |
| Montagnard Confederation | E | F | A | F | F | F | F | A | T |
| Myanmar | C | E | D | D | D | C | C | C | T |
| Nag Kampuchea | D | F | B | E | F | F | F | B | T |
| Pattani | F | E | E | E | E | C | C | D | T |
| Shan | E | D | D | D | F | E | E | E | T |
| Siam | C | C | E | D | C | B | A | C | C |
| Singapore | F | A | D | E | E | E | B | D | F |
| Vietnam | A | C | D | B | A | A | B | B | B |
| Yunnan | E | E | C | B | F | D | C | A | T |
But I'll slap the rest of the chart together as well.
-Username17
I gave them a "C" since Switzerland has a very good educational system and is rich - which would likely attract a lot of mages from other countries to work and research there. Kind of like we drain Germany of (some of) their best minds currently. Could be D as well, but I'd expect them to have more than their demographically appropriate access to magic.
The militia system would also mean that almost every citizen with magic talent would be in the military when mobilized - that means a lot more mages than in professional armies, which have to compete with the civilian sector when it comes to recruiting.
The militia system would also mean that almost every citizen with magic talent would be in the military when mobilized - that means a lot more mages than in professional armies, which have to compete with the civilian sector when it comes to recruiting.
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RiotGearEpsilon
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My guess is that it indicates that the army is too specialized to rate on the standard scale.RiotGearEpsilon wrote:I'm not clear what T means, although I assume it's worse than F.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
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Username17
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The Terrorist Threat
“We do not negotiate with those who do not negotiate.”
The “T” ranking is a highly controversial one. It is applied to countries and organizations which through tribalism, warlords, personal initiative, or corruption simply cannot control their militaries. In such cases, the presence or absence of military force doesn't really move negotiations at all, because there is no one to negotiate with. As such, T-ranked organizations do not normally use their militaries as negotiating pieces. T-ranked organizations still accomplish things with their militaries, but only by the expedient of killing people they hate, stealing things they want, or driving enemies out of territories they contest. They can't negotiate settlements or ends to hostilities in any real way.
Much of the controversy of the rating stems from the reality that if you move far up enough on the organizational chart, it applies to everything. The United Nations cannot prevent member states from fighting, nor can the Corporate Court prevent conflicts from escalating to violence. And yet, no one would seriously classify either the Corporate Court or the United Nations as a terrorist organization. There is a school of thought that holds that pirate enclaves like Madagascar and Pattani should not even be classified as militaries, that the largest possible unit that should be considered is one which can negotiate on its own behalf. And if that unit is a single ship's captain or the head of a single Mafia family or the leader of a single cell, then so be it. That idea is interesting, but paring the world's militaries down to that degree would be exceedingly difficult, and be so specific as to be obsolete as soon as it was published.
The Montagnard Confederation
Rich in magic and backed by landscape altering magic and extremely powerful spirits, the Motagnard Confederation is an opponent unlike any that the region has ever seen. They are essentially continuously on a war footing with all of their neighbors and because of the diverse tribal structure and the unofficial autocratic powers of virtually any Plig, there is no realistic expectation that they will stand down. Nevertheless, Laos, Cambodia, and even Siam have ceded lands to them, simply because it wasn't worth fighting over jungle that the Plig had taken control of. The Vietnamese have held their ground at the cost of cutting down the forests at Dak Seang every day for several years running. Territorial concessions by the Siamese have not halted attacks by the Plig, but they have reduced them. Siamese forces are farther away from the centers of Plig power and they are measurably attacked less often than when they were trying to hold Xe Pian Forest. Vietnam on the other hand, is attacked every day by spirits from the woods.
Myanmar
The various warlords of Myanmar are at each other other's throats with such regularity that it almost doesn't matter what any foreigners say or do. Sometimes the civil war spreads out into neighboring countries, and sometimes a warlord will attempt to “punish” some group for dealing with one of their opponents. Individual warlords are negotiated with separately, but may of them don't even keep their words. Still, there is a lot of military hardware out there from Myanmar's time as a country with a functioning government, so the total military power being thrown around is large (if somewhat antiquated and poorly maintained).
Nag Kampuchea
Backed up by some impressively potent Naga magicians, the magical powers of Nag Kampuchea are a thing to be reckoned with. However, due to the fractured nature of the Princes Council, it is not at all clear how any of the nations could stop being at war with Nag Kampuchea. At present, each general is planning and orchestrating their own wars to further their own military objectives.
Pattani
The military of Pattani is essentially feudal. Each Captain is in charge of outfitting his own boat and hiring his own crew. This makes their fleet disorganized and basically little more than civilian vessels and outdated hulls covered with random weaponry. It has been said that Pattani doesn't really have a military, they simply issue letters of marque to pirates. It is not at all clear that the Mullahs could reign in pirates from attacking ships flying specific colors in the Straights of Malacca even if they wanted to. And honestly, it doesn't really seem like they want to.
Shan
Shan is another feudal empire, this time on land. Shan warlords each fight each other for a share of the opium reserves and then fight the border patrols of neighboring countries to get that opium to market. The Corporate Court has defined Shan as a narco-state and all of their neighbors have pretty much given up talking to them (except for Karen, which is in part because Karen does not represent a significant market).
Yunnan
Yunnan has opium warlords and also air pirates. Neither group is particular keen to negotiate in good faith and none of the factions speaks for Yunnan as a whole. Using a combination of weather control and spiritually accelerated LAVs, Yunnan smuggles goods throughout Southeast Asia and the former Chinese Empire with impunity. And it also preys upon air freight that travels south of the Himalayas. Its borders are so porous that it even sends raids and contraband into Vietnam. While there are some attempts to unify the country into a single political entity (and even expand to reform Nanzhong and hope to reunify China under the Camellia), none of the factions are strong enough to make that happen. As such, while individual bandit chieftains can be bargained with, the military of the nation as a whole cannot.
“We do not negotiate with those who do not negotiate.”
The “T” ranking is a highly controversial one. It is applied to countries and organizations which through tribalism, warlords, personal initiative, or corruption simply cannot control their militaries. In such cases, the presence or absence of military force doesn't really move negotiations at all, because there is no one to negotiate with. As such, T-ranked organizations do not normally use their militaries as negotiating pieces. T-ranked organizations still accomplish things with their militaries, but only by the expedient of killing people they hate, stealing things they want, or driving enemies out of territories they contest. They can't negotiate settlements or ends to hostilities in any real way.
Much of the controversy of the rating stems from the reality that if you move far up enough on the organizational chart, it applies to everything. The United Nations cannot prevent member states from fighting, nor can the Corporate Court prevent conflicts from escalating to violence. And yet, no one would seriously classify either the Corporate Court or the United Nations as a terrorist organization. There is a school of thought that holds that pirate enclaves like Madagascar and Pattani should not even be classified as militaries, that the largest possible unit that should be considered is one which can negotiate on its own behalf. And if that unit is a single ship's captain or the head of a single Mafia family or the leader of a single cell, then so be it. That idea is interesting, but paring the world's militaries down to that degree would be exceedingly difficult, and be so specific as to be obsolete as soon as it was published.
The Montagnard Confederation
Rich in magic and backed by landscape altering magic and extremely powerful spirits, the Motagnard Confederation is an opponent unlike any that the region has ever seen. They are essentially continuously on a war footing with all of their neighbors and because of the diverse tribal structure and the unofficial autocratic powers of virtually any Plig, there is no realistic expectation that they will stand down. Nevertheless, Laos, Cambodia, and even Siam have ceded lands to them, simply because it wasn't worth fighting over jungle that the Plig had taken control of. The Vietnamese have held their ground at the cost of cutting down the forests at Dak Seang every day for several years running. Territorial concessions by the Siamese have not halted attacks by the Plig, but they have reduced them. Siamese forces are farther away from the centers of Plig power and they are measurably attacked less often than when they were trying to hold Xe Pian Forest. Vietnam on the other hand, is attacked every day by spirits from the woods.
Myanmar
The various warlords of Myanmar are at each other other's throats with such regularity that it almost doesn't matter what any foreigners say or do. Sometimes the civil war spreads out into neighboring countries, and sometimes a warlord will attempt to “punish” some group for dealing with one of their opponents. Individual warlords are negotiated with separately, but may of them don't even keep their words. Still, there is a lot of military hardware out there from Myanmar's time as a country with a functioning government, so the total military power being thrown around is large (if somewhat antiquated and poorly maintained).
Nag Kampuchea
Backed up by some impressively potent Naga magicians, the magical powers of Nag Kampuchea are a thing to be reckoned with. However, due to the fractured nature of the Princes Council, it is not at all clear how any of the nations could stop being at war with Nag Kampuchea. At present, each general is planning and orchestrating their own wars to further their own military objectives.
Pattani
The military of Pattani is essentially feudal. Each Captain is in charge of outfitting his own boat and hiring his own crew. This makes their fleet disorganized and basically little more than civilian vessels and outdated hulls covered with random weaponry. It has been said that Pattani doesn't really have a military, they simply issue letters of marque to pirates. It is not at all clear that the Mullahs could reign in pirates from attacking ships flying specific colors in the Straights of Malacca even if they wanted to. And honestly, it doesn't really seem like they want to.
Shan
Shan is another feudal empire, this time on land. Shan warlords each fight each other for a share of the opium reserves and then fight the border patrols of neighboring countries to get that opium to market. The Corporate Court has defined Shan as a narco-state and all of their neighbors have pretty much given up talking to them (except for Karen, which is in part because Karen does not represent a significant market).
Yunnan
Yunnan has opium warlords and also air pirates. Neither group is particular keen to negotiate in good faith and none of the factions speaks for Yunnan as a whole. Using a combination of weather control and spiritually accelerated LAVs, Yunnan smuggles goods throughout Southeast Asia and the former Chinese Empire with impunity. And it also preys upon air freight that travels south of the Himalayas. Its borders are so porous that it even sends raids and contraband into Vietnam. While there are some attempts to unify the country into a single political entity (and even expand to reform Nanzhong and hope to reunify China under the Camellia), none of the factions are strong enough to make that happen. As such, while individual bandit chieftains can be bargained with, the military of the nation as a whole cannot.
Last edited by Username17 on Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RiotGearEpsilon
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RiotGearEpsilon
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Username17
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Ranking the Militaries
“You can get more with a polite request and a million soldiers than you can with a polite request alone.”
Posted by: Hannibal
Military capability is one of the greatest predictors of hegemony in the modern world, and it has been one of the greatest predictors of hegemony for the entirety of metahuman history. Countries and organizations that can field military force sufficient to take what they want have a very real tendency to get what they want diplomatically. While purely financial enterprises exist, they generally exist within the shadow of a military that is pledged to defend their interests. Banditry and piracy are still very real things and are carried out even at the corporate and national level. A corporation or nation that cannot enforce its demands through threat of force will have its contracts voided and its goods seized by those with the strength to do so. The Nuyen itself is simply a manner of distributing goods and services within a negotiated truce that is watched over constantly by some of the largest militaries on Earth.
Even with the threat of war, agencies are not always keen to pay their bills. In the first decade of this century, Ukraine almost went to war with Russia over its refusal to pay for gas shipped to them by Gazprom. At the beginning of this decade, Ifrit Services invaded Somaliland rather than pay for copper. Hidden behind every negotiation is the reality that the “hard option” is also an option. If a company or country feels that they can lose less to acquire a resource by fighting for it than buying it, the guns come out.
The A List
“The biggest and most important things are the most loved and feared.”
An A-ranked military is one which can allow its controller to get almost all of its way almost all of the time. A-ranked militaries can project force around the world, take massive losses in costly mistakes or sneak attacks and write them off as a learning experience, and credibly threaten to destroy entire nations that oppose them. Very famously during the “Cold War” period there were precisely two A-ranked militaries on the planet: The United States and The Soviet Union. With the march of technology, advancements in magic, and the onward march of industrialization and productivity, there are a lot more now.
A-ranked militaries have weapons of mass destruction, blue water navies, satellite intelligence, credible air forces, at least five hundred thousand soldiers, considerable magical capability, and advanced modern military doctrines. Such forces cannot really be “destroyed” without invoking some sort of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) plan. However, while they likely cannot be truly conquered, it is still possible for them to lose. Wars are generally fought for some goal, and lesser military forces, even substantially lesser forces in some instances, can make achieving that goal so costly that it simply isn't worth it. When the A-ranked military cuts their losses and walks away in disgust, the lesser force has “won”. Keep in mind, this is always incredibly costly for the lesser power as well. The Vietnamese defeated the United States, and the Afghanis defeated the Soviet Union, but both forces lost many times as many people as they inflicted in casualties on the A-ranked force they faced off against.
The B Side
“If you're not first, you're last.”
A B-ranked military is of sufficient strength that no power on Earth could reasonably expect to depose them by force of arms. A B ranking is similar to an A ranking save for the ability to project force effectively across the globe. Such militaries might lack access to aircraft carriers or heavy vehicle transports necessary to move an effective combined arms force to another theater. Most B-ranked forces do have access to weapons of mass destruction and a plan to use them in the case of existential threats. The classic Cold War examples of B-ranked militaries were the PRC and the DPRK. These countries had second-rate but still functional nuclear programs and over three million soldiers each – actually conquering or even severely antagonizing either was basically off the table. But neither country sported a blue water navy and couldn't seriously make demands on any country far from their own literal borders.
A B-ranked power has tremendous bargaining position in the world due to the sheer incorrigibility of their position. If they choose to not accept offers or mandates from other agencies there isn't anything external factions can do to force them into agreements. Yes, sanctions can be employed, and these may cause intransigence to be more expensive than bargaining, but the omnipresent threat of “what are you going to do about it?” gets B-ranked parties their way more often than not.
It is a mistake to think that just because a B-ranked force lacks the ability of global force projection of an A-ranked military that it cannot successfully invade a target on the other side of the Earth. It merely cannot do so unilaterally. International shipping still exists, and if alliances can be formed with neighbors of the target, or the target is sufficiently prostrate to be unable to prevent the invaders from building bases within their territory, then an invasion can still be made to work.
Vietnam
Vietnam has the seventh largest army in the world. They have weapons of mass destruction, space-based delivery systems, aircraft carriers, and high-speed bombers. They have more automated artillery than any other nation except Russia and Korea. They have a proven tenacity that allowed them to defeat the great empires of the United States and the PRC while those countries still existed. So why don't they qualify as an A-ranked power? Mostly it's a question of logistics. Vietnam simply cannot mobilize most of its armed forces to attack a target outside their immediate sphere of influence. More than half a million of their soldiers are classified as militia and don't even have external deployment training. Seagoing troop transportation is pretty minimal, and they do not have the freight capacity to really supply a foreign invasion. Vietnamese forces can (and do) show up and wreck up the place while punishing terrorists from Morocco to Argentina, but they can't readily attempt the kinds of occupation and empire building that, for example, Japan has done.
C Is Not The Average
“A passing grade is a success by any sane measure.”
It is a mistake to believe that only global powers exist. While there are indeed only 20 powers rated A or B and they have a super-secret club called the Power 20 where they discuss how to divide up the planet, there are still countries and organizations that are not on that list who could plausibly challenge them. These are the C-ranked powers, and there are a lot of them. Any C-ranked power is throwing around enough guns and butter that their opinions have to be taken into account even while the Power 20 are drawing lines on a map. France and the United Kingdom may be able to reach an agreement between each other about how to divide up the Mediterranean, but the Italian Federation still exists, and is a big enough player that its opinions cannot be completely discounted.
C-ranked powers often engage in military adventurism against weaker forces. Their position of being too big for the big boys to mess with flippantly while at the same time being too small to get invited to detentes meetings leaves them with the appearance of being a big fish in a small pond. Egypt may not be a match for Israel or the Caliphate, but it can and does pretty much smack around Tunis and Somaliland around for pocket money whenever it feels like doing that.
Siam
After Siam's costly experiment with pacifism ended a few years back, Siam has adopted a draft and swollen their ranks to about three hundred thousand troops. They also bought a lot of weapons systems from various Japanese and Russian suppliers. This was enough to crush the Gauntlet of Myanmar and leave the entire country a shattered wreck, but it remains to be seen how it will fare against modernized forces.
Most of the World Gets a D
“I don't have to outrun the bear, I have to outrun you.”
D-ranked forces are able to defend themselves at a level the world regards as roughly standard. Such countries usually negotiate as if military options did not exist. They turn to finance, barter, and appeals to emotion to get what they want from other organizations. Not because they are high minded and superior morally to stronger nations, but because they have reached a state of equilibrium where military engagement is expensive without being extremely one sided. Thus, most D-ranked groups tend to live in a Hobbesian universe of forced civility.
That being said, D-ranked groups have tempers and lines they will not cross and historical grudges and see opportunity when it presents itself and form alliances and do all the other things that turn a leader's thoughts to war. D-ranked nations do go to war, both as the defender and the aggressor. It's just that they don't have the kinds of strength required to make their military might figure much in pre- or post-war negotiations, and don't have the kinds of demonstrable weakness that might lend themselves to being a point of negotiation by other parties.
Cambodia
With over a hundred and twenty thousand soldiers under arms, the Royal Cambodian Armed Forces is still only a bit more than a third the size of Siam's, and less than one tenth the size of Vietnam's. But still, it's much larger than the armed forces of any other country they are liable to face off against. Lots of people remember the Cambodian army of the sixties, with its poor sanitation and mismatched weaponry from the forties, but those days are pretty much over. Today's Cambodians are outfitted with shiny new French weaponry and updated battle doctrines based on Vietnamese and Japanese tactics. They even have their own samurai forces. If they do well against Nag Kampuchea and/or Siam, they will likely be upgraded to C-rank.
Hainan
Hainan is a chain of islands that contests water assets with Vietnam and the Canton Confederation in the South China Sea. They have little in the way of conventional forces and are primarily defended by weapons of mass destruction and intelligence assets. Hainan is big in space, having inherited the Wenchang Launch Center from the breakup of the PRC. They have archaic Long March 6 class nuclear missiles, and maintain their own orbital weapons launch site. Still, despite their access to super weapons, they don't actually have the forces needed to even patrol their main island, so they still usually get pushed around by Vietnam and are distinctly the lesser partner in their relationship with Shibata. Still, no one on Earth seriously wishes to risk the MAD plan Hainan has in place, and their position is basically pretty secure.
Malaysia
Malaysia has rather tense borders with Pattani and generally poor relations with Sumatra. There are also local dissidents to worry about, with both Islamic and ethnic Han secessionist groups. Also, there is the outstanding insult of the fact that the Dayak Council conquered all of Malaysia's territories on the island of Borneo, and official policy has always been that the lost territories will be reconquered at some point. So it would make sense for Malaysia to undergo a massive militarization program. But they haven't. The country is content to maintain minimal military spending, keeping a small but technically advanced professional force to protect the country from existential threats.
“Small forces can defend small treasures.”
The E-ranking is the lowest level an organization's military can be rated and still have minimum standards. While an E-ranked force is both small and weak on an international scale, it is by definition large enough to be rated on an international scale. Possessing tens of thousands of soldiers, weaponry, supplies, and chains of command, E-ranked forces can chew through gangs, demonstrators, and impassioned individuals like they weren't even there. It may be a small army, but it is recognizably an army, and it isn't going to be defeated by anything short of another army.
Whether an E-ranked force is sufficient to conquer or defend something depends largely on what the thing being fought over is worth. While more powerful militaries can defeat them, they can only do this by expending actual funds, troops, and effort.
Chin
Bounded by Assam, Nagaland, and Myanmar, Chin is a landlocked region with roughly half a million inhabitants. The armies of Chin are only nine battalions and they don't even control the entire territory. Still, their large reservoir of chemical weapons and total disregard for metahuman life leaves them as a force to be reckoned with. They are able to demand – and receive – free passage through Assam to trade with United Bengal.
Laos
The Dai Lao forces command about 30,000 troops, which is about the same as what the Pathet Lao forces have. If the country were actually invaded by a foreign power that neither side in the civil war was on friendly terms with, there would be about sixty thousand soldiers arrayed against them. That's about half of what Cambodia can field, and the harsh reality is that unless you really need hydroelectric power the country just isn't worth half of Cambodia. The Laotian civil war is bloody and has pulled in corporate sponsors from ShinSiam (on the Dai Lao side) and the Khouang Combine (on the Pathet Lao side), and both of those militaries are higher tech and better financed than the locals.
F Rank: On the Sufferance of Others
“My dad can beat up your dad!”
F-ranked militaries barely qualify as such. They may be able to handle peaceful demonstrators (then again, they may not), but they can't readily expect to triumph over any “real” opposition. F-ranked militaries are largely for show, but they are able at times to hold very small areas or to face off against common criminals. Poorly trained, equipped, or motivated – or simply desperately short of manpower, an F-ranking means that such a military is essentially ignored when the big boys sit at the table and divide up the world.
The owner of an F-ranked military is in no particular position to make demands of any kind, and such organizations often rely upon larger treaty structures or asymmetric alliances with more dangerous organizations for their protection. For example: the Federation and Republic of Macedonia are both micro states with less than ten thousand paramilitaries under arms. Ottoman forces could overwhelm either or both countries within hours. And yet, they step lightly because complicated religious, economic, and treaty entanglements between the Macedonians and other peoples and organizations make any invasion one with potential repercussions from those other forces. The Federation of Macedonia couldn't hold out against Ottoman forces for a whole day, but the Ottomans have to make sure that Saeder-Krupp wouldn't produce military reprisals if they attacked.
Karen
Having a militia of about eight thousand people, Karen is pretty much incapable of defending itself against determined attack from any nearby state. While they have an interesting and potentially battle turning method of combining several small spirits into one larger spirit, and the territory itself is mountainous and inhospitable, so holding the place would likely be as unpleasant for whoever attempted to occupy it as it was for Myanmar back when they actually did. But the army itself is incapable of holding off Siam or even major warlords of Myanmar or Shan. Karen continues to exist as an independent entity primarily because Shan and Siam enjoy having a shorter border with Myanmar.
Singapore
Singapore is literally one city. They are incorporated and a majority owned subsidiary of ShinSiam. But they are also a major transshipping port in Southeast Asia and have numerous national and corporate clients. Singapore's entire security force is essentially law enforcement, and their modest coastal patrols have to be augmented with mercenary forces if pirate activities get heavy. Independence from Malaysia and Sumatra is maintained through the honoring of ancient treaties and because the Corporate Court seems to really like it this way and has guaranteed Singapore's status.
The Terrorist Threat
“We do not negotiate with those who do not negotiate.”
The “T” ranking is a highly controversial one. It is applied to countries and organizations which through tribalism, warlords, personal initiative, or corruption simply cannot control their militaries. In such cases, the presence or absence of military force doesn't really move negotiations at all, because there is no one to negotiate with. As such, T-ranked organizations do not normally use their militaries as negotiating pieces. T-ranked organizations still accomplish things with their militaries, but only by the expedient of killing people they hate, stealing things they want, or driving enemies out of territories they contest. They can't negotiate settlements or ends to hostilities in any real way.
Much of the controversy of the rating stems from the reality that if you move far up enough on the organizational chart, it applies to everything. The United Nations cannot prevent member states from fighting, nor can the Corporate Court prevent conflicts from escalating to violence. And yet, no one would seriously classify either the Corporate Court or the United Nations as a terrorist organization. There is a school of thought that holds that pirate enclaves like Madagascar and Pattani should not even be classified as militaries, that the largest possible unit that should be considered is one which can negotiate on its own behalf. And if that unit is a single ship's captain or the head of a single Mafia family or the leader of a single cell, then so be it. That idea is interesting, but paring the world's militaries down to that degree would be exceedingly difficult, and be so specific as to be obsolete as soon as it was published.
The Montagnard Confederation
Rich in magic and backed by landscape altering magic and extremely powerful spirits, the Motagnard Confederation is an opponent unlike any that the region has ever seen. They are essentially continuously on a war footing with all of their neighbors and because of the diverse tribal structure and the unofficial autocratic powers of virtually any Plig, there is no realistic expectation that they will stand down. Nevertheless, Laos, Cambodia, and even Siam have ceded lands to them, simply because it wasn't worth fighting over jungle that the Plig had taken control of. The Vietnamese have held their ground at the cost of cutting down the forests at Dak Seang every day for several years running. Territorial concessions by the Siamese have not halted attacks by the Plig, but they have reduced them. Siamese forces are farther away from the centers of Plig power and they are measurably attacked less often than when they were trying to hold Xe Pian Forest. Vietnam on the other hand, is attacked every day by spirits from the woods.
Myanmar
The various warlords of Myanmar are at each other's throats with such regularity that it almost doesn't matter what any foreigners say or do. Sometimes the civil war spreads out into neighboring countries, and sometimes a warlord will attempt to “punish” some group for dealing with one of their opponents. Individual warlords are negotiated with separately, but may of them don't even keep their words. Still, there is a lot of military hardware out there from Myanmar's time as a country with a functioning government, so the total military power being thrown around is large (if somewhat antiquated and poorly maintained).
Nag Kampuchea
Backed up by some impressively potent Naga magicians, the magical powers of Nag Kampuchea are a thing to be reckoned with. However, due to the fractured nature of the Princes Council, it is not at all clear how any of the nations could stop being at war with Nag Kampuchea. At present, each general is planning and orchestrating their own wars to further their own military objectives.
Pattani
The military of Pattani is essentially feudal. Each Captain is in charge of outfitting his own boat and hiring his own crew. This makes their fleet disorganized and basically little more than civilian vessels and outdated hulls covered with random weaponry. It has been said that Pattani doesn't really have a military, they simply issue letters of marque to pirates. It is not at all clear that the Mullahs could reign in pirates from attacking ships flying specific colors in the Straights of Malacca even if they wanted to. And honestly, it doesn't really seem like they want to.
Shan
Shan is another feudal empire, this time on land. Shan warlords each fight each other for a share of the opium reserves and then fight the border patrols of neighboring countries to get that opium to market. The Corporate Court has defined Shan as a narco-state and all of their neighbors have pretty much given up talking to them (except for Karen, which is in part because Karen does not represent a significant market).
Yunnan
Yunnan has opium warlords and also air pirates. Neither group is particular keen to negotiate in good faith and none of the factions speaks for Yunnan as a whole. Using a combination of weather control and spiritually accelerated LAVs, Yunnan smuggles goods throughout Southeast Asia and the former Chinese Empire with impunity. And it also preys upon air freight that travels south of the Himalayas. Its borders are so porous that it even sends raids and contraband into Vietnam. While there are some attempts to unify the country into a single political entity (and even expand to reform Nanzhong and hope to reunify China under the Camellia), none of the factions are strong enough to make that happen. As such, while individual bandit chieftains can be bargained with, the military of the nation as a whole cannot.
“You can get more with a polite request and a million soldiers than you can with a polite request alone.”
Posted by: Hannibal
Military capability is one of the greatest predictors of hegemony in the modern world, and it has been one of the greatest predictors of hegemony for the entirety of metahuman history. Countries and organizations that can field military force sufficient to take what they want have a very real tendency to get what they want diplomatically. While purely financial enterprises exist, they generally exist within the shadow of a military that is pledged to defend their interests. Banditry and piracy are still very real things and are carried out even at the corporate and national level. A corporation or nation that cannot enforce its demands through threat of force will have its contracts voided and its goods seized by those with the strength to do so. The Nuyen itself is simply a manner of distributing goods and services within a negotiated truce that is watched over constantly by some of the largest militaries on Earth.
Even with the threat of war, agencies are not always keen to pay their bills. In the first decade of this century, Ukraine almost went to war with Russia over its refusal to pay for gas shipped to them by Gazprom. At the beginning of this decade, Ifrit Services invaded Somaliland rather than pay for copper. Hidden behind every negotiation is the reality that the “hard option” is also an option. If a company or country feels that they can lose less to acquire a resource by fighting for it than buying it, the guns come out.
The A List
“The biggest and most important things are the most loved and feared.”
An A-ranked military is one which can allow its controller to get almost all of its way almost all of the time. A-ranked militaries can project force around the world, take massive losses in costly mistakes or sneak attacks and write them off as a learning experience, and credibly threaten to destroy entire nations that oppose them. Very famously during the “Cold War” period there were precisely two A-ranked militaries on the planet: The United States and The Soviet Union. With the march of technology, advancements in magic, and the onward march of industrialization and productivity, there are a lot more now.
A-ranked militaries have weapons of mass destruction, blue water navies, satellite intelligence, credible air forces, at least five hundred thousand soldiers, considerable magical capability, and advanced modern military doctrines. Such forces cannot really be “destroyed” without invoking some sort of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) plan. However, while they likely cannot be truly conquered, it is still possible for them to lose. Wars are generally fought for some goal, and lesser military forces, even substantially lesser forces in some instances, can make achieving that goal so costly that it simply isn't worth it. When the A-ranked military cuts their losses and walks away in disgust, the lesser force has “won”. Keep in mind, this is always incredibly costly for the lesser power as well. The Vietnamese defeated the United States, and the Afghanis defeated the Soviet Union, but both forces lost many times as many people as they inflicted in casualties on the A-ranked force they faced off against.
The B Side
“If you're not first, you're last.”
A B-ranked military is of sufficient strength that no power on Earth could reasonably expect to depose them by force of arms. A B ranking is similar to an A ranking save for the ability to project force effectively across the globe. Such militaries might lack access to aircraft carriers or heavy vehicle transports necessary to move an effective combined arms force to another theater. Most B-ranked forces do have access to weapons of mass destruction and a plan to use them in the case of existential threats. The classic Cold War examples of B-ranked militaries were the PRC and the DPRK. These countries had second-rate but still functional nuclear programs and over three million soldiers each – actually conquering or even severely antagonizing either was basically off the table. But neither country sported a blue water navy and couldn't seriously make demands on any country far from their own literal borders.
A B-ranked power has tremendous bargaining position in the world due to the sheer incorrigibility of their position. If they choose to not accept offers or mandates from other agencies there isn't anything external factions can do to force them into agreements. Yes, sanctions can be employed, and these may cause intransigence to be more expensive than bargaining, but the omnipresent threat of “what are you going to do about it?” gets B-ranked parties their way more often than not.
It is a mistake to think that just because a B-ranked force lacks the ability of global force projection of an A-ranked military that it cannot successfully invade a target on the other side of the Earth. It merely cannot do so unilaterally. International shipping still exists, and if alliances can be formed with neighbors of the target, or the target is sufficiently prostrate to be unable to prevent the invaders from building bases within their territory, then an invasion can still be made to work.
Vietnam
Vietnam has the seventh largest army in the world. They have weapons of mass destruction, space-based delivery systems, aircraft carriers, and high-speed bombers. They have more automated artillery than any other nation except Russia and Korea. They have a proven tenacity that allowed them to defeat the great empires of the United States and the PRC while those countries still existed. So why don't they qualify as an A-ranked power? Mostly it's a question of logistics. Vietnam simply cannot mobilize most of its armed forces to attack a target outside their immediate sphere of influence. More than half a million of their soldiers are classified as militia and don't even have external deployment training. Seagoing troop transportation is pretty minimal, and they do not have the freight capacity to really supply a foreign invasion. Vietnamese forces can (and do) show up and wreck up the place while punishing terrorists from Morocco to Argentina, but they can't readily attempt the kinds of occupation and empire building that, for example, Japan has done.
C Is Not The Average
“A passing grade is a success by any sane measure.”
It is a mistake to believe that only global powers exist. While there are indeed only 20 powers rated A or B and they have a super-secret club called the Power 20 where they discuss how to divide up the planet, there are still countries and organizations that are not on that list who could plausibly challenge them. These are the C-ranked powers, and there are a lot of them. Any C-ranked power is throwing around enough guns and butter that their opinions have to be taken into account even while the Power 20 are drawing lines on a map. France and the United Kingdom may be able to reach an agreement between each other about how to divide up the Mediterranean, but the Italian Federation still exists, and is a big enough player that its opinions cannot be completely discounted.
C-ranked powers often engage in military adventurism against weaker forces. Their position of being too big for the big boys to mess with flippantly while at the same time being too small to get invited to detentes meetings leaves them with the appearance of being a big fish in a small pond. Egypt may not be a match for Israel or the Caliphate, but it can and does pretty much smack around Tunis and Somaliland around for pocket money whenever it feels like doing that.
Siam
After Siam's costly experiment with pacifism ended a few years back, Siam has adopted a draft and swollen their ranks to about three hundred thousand troops. They also bought a lot of weapons systems from various Japanese and Russian suppliers. This was enough to crush the Gauntlet of Myanmar and leave the entire country a shattered wreck, but it remains to be seen how it will fare against modernized forces.
Most of the World Gets a D
“I don't have to outrun the bear, I have to outrun you.”
D-ranked forces are able to defend themselves at a level the world regards as roughly standard. Such countries usually negotiate as if military options did not exist. They turn to finance, barter, and appeals to emotion to get what they want from other organizations. Not because they are high minded and superior morally to stronger nations, but because they have reached a state of equilibrium where military engagement is expensive without being extremely one sided. Thus, most D-ranked groups tend to live in a Hobbesian universe of forced civility.
That being said, D-ranked groups have tempers and lines they will not cross and historical grudges and see opportunity when it presents itself and form alliances and do all the other things that turn a leader's thoughts to war. D-ranked nations do go to war, both as the defender and the aggressor. It's just that they don't have the kinds of strength required to make their military might figure much in pre- or post-war negotiations, and don't have the kinds of demonstrable weakness that might lend themselves to being a point of negotiation by other parties.
Cambodia
With over a hundred and twenty thousand soldiers under arms, the Royal Cambodian Armed Forces is still only a bit more than a third the size of Siam's, and less than one tenth the size of Vietnam's. But still, it's much larger than the armed forces of any other country they are liable to face off against. Lots of people remember the Cambodian army of the sixties, with its poor sanitation and mismatched weaponry from the forties, but those days are pretty much over. Today's Cambodians are outfitted with shiny new French weaponry and updated battle doctrines based on Vietnamese and Japanese tactics. They even have their own samurai forces. If they do well against Nag Kampuchea and/or Siam, they will likely be upgraded to C-rank.
Hainan
Hainan is a chain of islands that contests water assets with Vietnam and the Canton Confederation in the South China Sea. They have little in the way of conventional forces and are primarily defended by weapons of mass destruction and intelligence assets. Hainan is big in space, having inherited the Wenchang Launch Center from the breakup of the PRC. They have archaic Long March 6 class nuclear missiles, and maintain their own orbital weapons launch site. Still, despite their access to super weapons, they don't actually have the forces needed to even patrol their main island, so they still usually get pushed around by Vietnam and are distinctly the lesser partner in their relationship with Shibata. Still, no one on Earth seriously wishes to risk the MAD plan Hainan has in place, and their position is basically pretty secure.
Malaysia
Malaysia has rather tense borders with Pattani and generally poor relations with Sumatra. There are also local dissidents to worry about, with both Islamic and ethnic Han secessionist groups. Also, there is the outstanding insult of the fact that the Dayak Council conquered all of Malaysia's territories on the island of Borneo, and official policy has always been that the lost territories will be reconquered at some point. So it would make sense for Malaysia to undergo a massive militarization program. But they haven't. The country is content to maintain minimal military spending, keeping a small but technically advanced professional force to protect the country from existential threats.
- I wouldn't say the country is content to allow Dayaks to occupy Sarawak and Sabah. The thing is that Malaysia is a federation, and even though the power of the sultans was thoroughly crushed in 2012 when the new king was found unsuitable by the military and shot, the different kingdoms in the federation are still pretty different. Johor and Selangor simply can't agree on a tax schedule that would allow them to afford the kind of army they would need to take territory back from the Dayaks.
- Chun The Unavoidable
“Small forces can defend small treasures.”
The E-ranking is the lowest level an organization's military can be rated and still have minimum standards. While an E-ranked force is both small and weak on an international scale, it is by definition large enough to be rated on an international scale. Possessing tens of thousands of soldiers, weaponry, supplies, and chains of command, E-ranked forces can chew through gangs, demonstrators, and impassioned individuals like they weren't even there. It may be a small army, but it is recognizably an army, and it isn't going to be defeated by anything short of another army.
Whether an E-ranked force is sufficient to conquer or defend something depends largely on what the thing being fought over is worth. While more powerful militaries can defeat them, they can only do this by expending actual funds, troops, and effort.
Chin
Bounded by Assam, Nagaland, and Myanmar, Chin is a landlocked region with roughly half a million inhabitants. The armies of Chin are only nine battalions and they don't even control the entire territory. Still, their large reservoir of chemical weapons and total disregard for metahuman life leaves them as a force to be reckoned with. They are able to demand – and receive – free passage through Assam to trade with United Bengal.
Laos
The Dai Lao forces command about 30,000 troops, which is about the same as what the Pathet Lao forces have. If the country were actually invaded by a foreign power that neither side in the civil war was on friendly terms with, there would be about sixty thousand soldiers arrayed against them. That's about half of what Cambodia can field, and the harsh reality is that unless you really need hydroelectric power the country just isn't worth half of Cambodia. The Laotian civil war is bloody and has pulled in corporate sponsors from ShinSiam (on the Dai Lao side) and the Khouang Combine (on the Pathet Lao side), and both of those militaries are higher tech and better financed than the locals.
F Rank: On the Sufferance of Others
“My dad can beat up your dad!”
F-ranked militaries barely qualify as such. They may be able to handle peaceful demonstrators (then again, they may not), but they can't readily expect to triumph over any “real” opposition. F-ranked militaries are largely for show, but they are able at times to hold very small areas or to face off against common criminals. Poorly trained, equipped, or motivated – or simply desperately short of manpower, an F-ranking means that such a military is essentially ignored when the big boys sit at the table and divide up the world.
The owner of an F-ranked military is in no particular position to make demands of any kind, and such organizations often rely upon larger treaty structures or asymmetric alliances with more dangerous organizations for their protection. For example: the Federation and Republic of Macedonia are both micro states with less than ten thousand paramilitaries under arms. Ottoman forces could overwhelm either or both countries within hours. And yet, they step lightly because complicated religious, economic, and treaty entanglements between the Macedonians and other peoples and organizations make any invasion one with potential repercussions from those other forces. The Federation of Macedonia couldn't hold out against Ottoman forces for a whole day, but the Ottomans have to make sure that Saeder-Krupp wouldn't produce military reprisals if they attacked.
Karen
Having a militia of about eight thousand people, Karen is pretty much incapable of defending itself against determined attack from any nearby state. While they have an interesting and potentially battle turning method of combining several small spirits into one larger spirit, and the territory itself is mountainous and inhospitable, so holding the place would likely be as unpleasant for whoever attempted to occupy it as it was for Myanmar back when they actually did. But the army itself is incapable of holding off Siam or even major warlords of Myanmar or Shan. Karen continues to exist as an independent entity primarily because Shan and Siam enjoy having a shorter border with Myanmar.
Singapore
Singapore is literally one city. They are incorporated and a majority owned subsidiary of ShinSiam. But they are also a major transshipping port in Southeast Asia and have numerous national and corporate clients. Singapore's entire security force is essentially law enforcement, and their modest coastal patrols have to be augmented with mercenary forces if pirate activities get heavy. Independence from Malaysia and Sumatra is maintained through the honoring of ancient treaties and because the Corporate Court seems to really like it this way and has guaranteed Singapore's status.
The Terrorist Threat
“We do not negotiate with those who do not negotiate.”
The “T” ranking is a highly controversial one. It is applied to countries and organizations which through tribalism, warlords, personal initiative, or corruption simply cannot control their militaries. In such cases, the presence or absence of military force doesn't really move negotiations at all, because there is no one to negotiate with. As such, T-ranked organizations do not normally use their militaries as negotiating pieces. T-ranked organizations still accomplish things with their militaries, but only by the expedient of killing people they hate, stealing things they want, or driving enemies out of territories they contest. They can't negotiate settlements or ends to hostilities in any real way.
Much of the controversy of the rating stems from the reality that if you move far up enough on the organizational chart, it applies to everything. The United Nations cannot prevent member states from fighting, nor can the Corporate Court prevent conflicts from escalating to violence. And yet, no one would seriously classify either the Corporate Court or the United Nations as a terrorist organization. There is a school of thought that holds that pirate enclaves like Madagascar and Pattani should not even be classified as militaries, that the largest possible unit that should be considered is one which can negotiate on its own behalf. And if that unit is a single ship's captain or the head of a single Mafia family or the leader of a single cell, then so be it. That idea is interesting, but paring the world's militaries down to that degree would be exceedingly difficult, and be so specific as to be obsolete as soon as it was published.
The Montagnard Confederation
Rich in magic and backed by landscape altering magic and extremely powerful spirits, the Motagnard Confederation is an opponent unlike any that the region has ever seen. They are essentially continuously on a war footing with all of their neighbors and because of the diverse tribal structure and the unofficial autocratic powers of virtually any Plig, there is no realistic expectation that they will stand down. Nevertheless, Laos, Cambodia, and even Siam have ceded lands to them, simply because it wasn't worth fighting over jungle that the Plig had taken control of. The Vietnamese have held their ground at the cost of cutting down the forests at Dak Seang every day for several years running. Territorial concessions by the Siamese have not halted attacks by the Plig, but they have reduced them. Siamese forces are farther away from the centers of Plig power and they are measurably attacked less often than when they were trying to hold Xe Pian Forest. Vietnam on the other hand, is attacked every day by spirits from the woods.
Myanmar
The various warlords of Myanmar are at each other's throats with such regularity that it almost doesn't matter what any foreigners say or do. Sometimes the civil war spreads out into neighboring countries, and sometimes a warlord will attempt to “punish” some group for dealing with one of their opponents. Individual warlords are negotiated with separately, but may of them don't even keep their words. Still, there is a lot of military hardware out there from Myanmar's time as a country with a functioning government, so the total military power being thrown around is large (if somewhat antiquated and poorly maintained).
Nag Kampuchea
Backed up by some impressively potent Naga magicians, the magical powers of Nag Kampuchea are a thing to be reckoned with. However, due to the fractured nature of the Princes Council, it is not at all clear how any of the nations could stop being at war with Nag Kampuchea. At present, each general is planning and orchestrating their own wars to further their own military objectives.
Pattani
The military of Pattani is essentially feudal. Each Captain is in charge of outfitting his own boat and hiring his own crew. This makes their fleet disorganized and basically little more than civilian vessels and outdated hulls covered with random weaponry. It has been said that Pattani doesn't really have a military, they simply issue letters of marque to pirates. It is not at all clear that the Mullahs could reign in pirates from attacking ships flying specific colors in the Straights of Malacca even if they wanted to. And honestly, it doesn't really seem like they want to.
Shan
Shan is another feudal empire, this time on land. Shan warlords each fight each other for a share of the opium reserves and then fight the border patrols of neighboring countries to get that opium to market. The Corporate Court has defined Shan as a narco-state and all of their neighbors have pretty much given up talking to them (except for Karen, which is in part because Karen does not represent a significant market).
Yunnan
Yunnan has opium warlords and also air pirates. Neither group is particular keen to negotiate in good faith and none of the factions speaks for Yunnan as a whole. Using a combination of weather control and spiritually accelerated LAVs, Yunnan smuggles goods throughout Southeast Asia and the former Chinese Empire with impunity. And it also preys upon air freight that travels south of the Himalayas. Its borders are so porous that it even sends raids and contraband into Vietnam. While there are some attempts to unify the country into a single political entity (and even expand to reform Nanzhong and hope to reunify China under the Camellia), none of the factions are strong enough to make that happen. As such, while individual bandit chieftains can be bargained with, the military of the nation as a whole cannot.
Last edited by Username17 on Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.